The Wandering Inn Wiki:Categories Issues

From The Wandering Inn Wiki

After browsing through 90% of the categories here's some suggestions/questions. Here's a page for that since it'll allow easier discussions about each item (instead of posting this in a comment in the categories revamp discussion page.

If an item is crossed off and marked as DONE, this does not mean discussion is closed on an item. Feel free to reopen discussion if you disagree, with a comment.

  1. Category:Content shouldn't contain Category:Browse (Browse should be the base) DONE.
  2. Category:Fanworks should be in Category:Media DONE.
  3. Category:Appearances : Candidate for removal as it seems quite useless? DONE. Moved to Category:Browse.
  4. Pirateaba is in Category:Content at its root. Ideally the category should not contain any page. Should we put Pirateaba's page in Category:Media instead? DONE.
  5. Category:Chapters should be in Category:Timeline like books and volumes. DONE Moved to Category:Timeline due to unanimous agreement.
  6. Category:Chapters actually contains stuff like Category:Volumes and Category:Books which seems redundant if we put the category in Category:Timeline DONE.
  7. Category:Deceased is a bit counter-intuitive to me. I understand the need to categorize dead characters but it's a big spoiler for some of them and while we hide the character status in their infoboxes, if the reader looks at their categories, they'll find out that way. To me this category should be removed (along with its subcategory Category:Souls Consumed and we should look into using DPL to create those lists from the information in character infoboxes. So until we research on how to use DPL to query wiki data, we can keep those at least :)DONE by a workaround (not displaying the Category in the page, but it's there)
  8. Category:Earthers Technology shouldn't be in Category:Earthers (it's already in Category:Equipment anyways.) DONE.
  9. Category:Geneva should be in Category:Earthers (it's in Category:Characters right now) DONE.
  10. Category:Nobles is a little messy at the moment, with families, houses and classes mixed up. Here's what I suggest. (see below)</sW DONE. (considered done, at least.
  11. Category:Bloodfeast Raiders and Category:Circle of Thorns shouldn't be listed under Category:Nobles I believe, as they might be made of nobles for the most part but aren't noble per se. Plus they already are in their own other categories. DONE.
  12. Category:Crime and Category:Bandits might be overlapping a bit. They have many subcategories in common but I understand it's a complicated question. DONE.
  13. Category:Crime is in Category:Terminology whereas I think it hsould be better in Category:Groups/Organisations. DONE. (left in Terminology but added to Groups)
  14. Category:Empresses is missing from Category:Rulers DONE.
  15. Category:Heartflame Set should be in Category:Armors instead of Category:Artifacts. DONE.
  16. Category:Adventurer Groups might be redundant in Category:Groups/Organisations as it's already in Category:Adventurers. Maybe remove it from Groups/Organizations? DONE. (no changes)
  17. Adventurer groups being all part of the Category:Groups/Organisations makes it hard to browse. You can't easily see which categories ahve subcategories. I'd vote to remove Adventurer groups from the Groups/Organization category as it's already in Category:Adventurer Groups. Note : this might be counter-intuitive with Category:Characters that has all characters listed no matter their groups, pages are differenciated from groups anyway... DONE. (no changes)
  18. Category:Four Great Companies misses one company :D DONE. (renamed to Great Companies)
  19. Category:Bow-Queens of the Free Antinium and Category:Bow-Singer Queens of the Free Antinium give me a headache. DONE. (removed)
  20. Category:House Shoel should be in Category:Groups/Organisations as well perhaps? DONE. (Renamed to Shoel (House))
  21. Category:House Marquin should be in Category:Nobles, right? Unless nobles only refer to non-royalty?
  22. Category:Wall Lords and Ladies should be in Category:Nobles too perhaps? DONE.
  23. Category:Liscor is in Category:City-states, is that a fact? I don't remember it's a city-state. DONE. (no changes)
  24. Category:Hives seem to only have the Free Hive page listed. Unless we don't know the other hives' names if they have any? DONE. (no changes)
  25. Category:Unseen Empire is a subcategory of Category:Riverfarm, which creates a circular dependency. Unseen Empire shouldn't be dependant on Riverfarm. DONE.
  26. Category:Ant Queens should be removed in favor of Category:Antinium Queens DONE.
  27. Are Category:Clown Edition, Category:Doctor Edition, Category:King Edition really needed? Their names don't feel like they are what they represent (lettered chapters) and I feel like if someone wants to see chapters about Flos they'll look up the character and see chapters he's in, possibly. Besides, letters don't really mean a lot anymore nowadays. DONE.
  28. Should Category:Vehicles be considered to be in Category:Equipment like Category:Mounts instead of being at the root? DONE. (added to Mounts)
  29. NEW: Unique Categories that are Classes with a Prefix and/or Suffix like those mentioned in 19 should not exist. It floods the category pages with useless data. Some characters would create a high numbers of categories by themselves.

    Bird would be part of:
    DONE. Categories in question have been removed.
    • Category:Bow-Singer Queen of the Free Antinium
    • Category:Bow-Queen of the Free Antinium
    • Category:Bow-Warden of the Songbird
    • Category:Queen of Freedom, Category:Antinium Queen
    • Category:Bird Hunter
    • Category:Amazing Liar. That's a total of 7.
    • Category:Antinium Queens should stay since it's also a Subspecies + Title Category, but that's another question. For the Class Category, Bird, in my suggestion would only be part of Category:Hunter, Category:Tactician, Category:Singer, Category:Revelantor, Category:Liar Category:Warden, and Category:Queen. Other example of Class Category: Pisces should only be part of Category:Necromancer, Category:Mage, Category:Slave, and Category:Duelist.
  30. We have some categories which have pages by the same name. My suggestion is to rename the page to the category with the same name. With a bit of luck it'll put the content in the category and redirect the page to its category. See House Walchais and Category:House Walchais for example, or Circle of Thorns and Category:Circle of Thorns.

Nobles refactoring :

* Barons
* Duchesses
* Dukes
* (...more classes...)
* Families and Houses <-- Already exists in Groups/Organizations too as Families. Do we really want to differenciate Houses and Families?
  * Artien Family
  * Blackwing Family
  * Byres Family
  * Five Families
  * Gemscale Family
  * Shoel (House) <-- To make it appear under S instead of H
  * Walchais Family <-- Currently House Walchais. Should be renamed perhaps?)
  * etc.

Let's talk now! :D

Tell me what you think, if you approve of the different points or have answers/decisions to some of these questions

Here's the category tree for easier review :

Browse(9 C)
Candidates for deletion(3 P, 23 F)
Citation Needed(10 P)
Content(16 C, 1 P)
Disambiguations(22 P)
Media(3 C, 5 P, 25 F)
Templates(6 C, 41 P)
AxelTerizaki
32 Lords and Wall Lords
Axel Terizaki | Posted on Jan 22, 2024 at 2:57 pm

Are Wall Lords different than Lords or do we consider all Wall Lords should have the Lord category? (I found some who didn't have it, like Nerul)

AxelTerizaki
21 Nobility and Royalty
Axel Terizaki | Posted on Jan 22, 2024 at 1:26 pm

As SerBear mentionned from Wikipedia, Nobility and Royalty are different. Should we make that difference here?

For now that's not clear as Category:Nobles contain things like :

Also many characters like Aielef du Marquin have the Nobles category.

Should we create a Category:Royalty for royals? Emperors and Empresses should probably be only part of Category:Rulers I suppose.

AxelTerizaki
29 Unique Classes deletions
Axel Terizaki | Posted on Jan 22, 2024 at 1:19 pm

I suppose we should ermove the categories belonging to these unique classes? For example I deleted the Queen* categories related to Bird but I left Category:Amazing Liars and Category:Bird Hunters for now as they are in other categories. Should I remove them as well until we do the class overhaul?

AxelTerizaki
Axel Terizaki | Posted on Jan 22, 2024 at 3:00 pm

Same question with Category:Lords of the Walls. So far we only have one of them.

AxelTerizaki
12 Bandits and Crime
Axel Terizaki | Posted on Jan 22, 2024 at 12:57 pm

If we keep the idea behind Nobles and Families, I suppose we shouldn't change anything to how stuff under Bandits also have the Crime category in there.


AxelTerizaki
10 Nobles
Axel Terizaki | Posted on Jan 22, 2024 at 12:49 pm | Last edited on Jan 22, 2024 at 12:52 pm

I did end doing not much for this actually : I realize my initial message wasn't clear enough. What I meant was to move individual Family categories out of Nobles and into Families. But if we listen to SerBear's suggestion about Venn diagrams, an individual Family like Shoel (House) should be also in the Nobles category.

So in the end there isn't much to do with this point. What I did was:

  • Rename House Walchais to Walchais (House) for better sorting.
  • Rename House Shoel to Shoel (House) for the same reason.
  • I also added the Families category to House Shoel as it was missing.

I didn't rename Families to Families and Houses because it would have been a pain to modify every family and change their categories, I think. Someone can do it if they really want to though :)

AxelTerizaki
30
Axel Terizaki | Posted on Jan 22, 2024 at 12:26 pm

Added this as I was trying to shuffle up the Nobles categories as mentionned in 10.

Thoughts? :)

Torenity
Torenity | Posted on Jan 22, 2024 at 7:03 pm

Just a short comment that Category:House Walchais can continue using that as its display name. You can add {{DEFAULTSORT:Welchais}} so that the Categories use that for sorting instead. I should add this to the Special Formatting guidelines

Check out The Pride of Kelia and Category:The Pride of Kelia for examples!

AxelTerizaki
Axel Terizaki | Posted on Jan 22, 2024 at 7:39 pm

That shows how much of a noob I really am :)

Torenity
Torenity | Posted on Jan 22, 2024 at 7:45 pm

Haha not even! I just found that when someone edited a page I made and really schooled me by adding those in

Torenity
6 Category:Chapters extraneous subcategories
Torenity | Posted on Jan 21, 2024 at 12:16 am

Category:Chapters actually contains stuff like Category:Volumes and Category:Books which seems redundant if we put the category in Category:Timeline
Item 6


I very much agree on removing Volumes/Books from Category:Chapters.

Torenity
7. Category:Deceased and DPL
Torenity | Posted on Jan 20, 2024 at 11:39 pm | Last edited on Jan 20, 2024 at 11:51 pm

Category:Deceased is a bit counter-intuitive to me. I understand the need to categorize dead characters but it's a big spoiler for some of them and while we hide the character status in their infoboxes, if the reader looks at their categories, they'll find out that way. To me this category should be removed (along with its subcategory Category:Souls Consumed and we should look into using DPL to create those lists from the information in character infoboxes. So until we research on how to use DPL to query wiki data, we can keep those at least :)
Item 7


7. Category:Deceased being a spoiler for those browsing a character's categories is a non-issue, I've added a magic word so it won't appear on a character's Categories list, but it will still categorize them. \o/. Did the same for Category:Souls Consumed

Checkout Qum. He's dead, but Deceased won't appear in his categories

DPL...I'd like to talk more about this before having it installed. I've been looking into the different ways to go about creating lists without the manual upkeep for each one. There are actually 3 different DPL extensions). DPL is known to eat up lots of performance on a wiki, especially if it's used everywhere to make those dynamic lists. I've taken a look into SemanticMediaWIki and Cargo as alternatives, (Tim's friend suggested Cargo over SMW due to performance and bloat).

DPL...SMW...Cargo. Likely we want to test our choices out on the wiki's dev before we commit

AxelTerizaki
Axel Terizaki | Posted on Jan 22, 2024 at 11:09 am

Nice! That magic word fixes the problem I had with someone accidentally stumbling upon the information. Now if they want to check out who's dead, they have a category they should not click on.

So for me 7 is fixed.

Wymae
Opinions
Wymae | Posted on Jan 20, 2024 at 7:18 pm | Last edited on Jan 20, 2024 at 7:23 pm

7. Not sure what DPL is specifically, so my opinion is not fully informed, but I disagree. If you're a (new) reader and look up a character in the wiki, it's your own fault if you get spoiled. Hiding the status in the character sheet is already a precaution, but looking at which category a character has or - god forbid - the category itself kind of makes it your own fault.

8. I'd rather have it either in Category:Earthers or in both.

15. Disagree, it belongs in either Category:Artifacts or both.

19. Why are these even a thing? Genuinely curious. I agree with SerBear's opinion on this.

23. Not sure why it would be a city-state specifically? Walled Cities can only influence it to a certain degree, but to me this doesn't make Liscor a state per se. If having autonomy from Walled Cities made it a state, there'd be many more city states, than just the ones that are currently categorized.

28. Either have Category:Mounts be a subcategory of Category:Vehicles or have both of them be a subcategory for something like "Transport" or "Personal Transport"

All others I tend to agree with or wouldn't mind either way.

AxelTerizaki
Axel Terizaki | Posted on Jan 22, 2024 at 12:03 pm

7. Torenity made a workaround which satisfies the need I had :) So the category stays.

8. It'll be in both as per SerBear's suggestions.

15. It'll be in both.

19. OK :)

23. I agree with SerBear on this in the end. It's just implied that all drake cities (and even human ones in the north actually) are city-states given there's no governing body above them, and cities can be at war with each other. SerBear made a good point on this I think.

28. Mounts are going to be in Vehicles in the end :)

SerBear
My opinion + New Suggestion.
SerBear | Posted on Jan 20, 2024 at 6:53 pm

4. I see Category:Content as the published stuff and their creators. Ideally, Andrea and the artists for The Last Tide should have their own page and be in that category with Pirateaba.

5 & 6 & 7. Agreed

8. I believe Category:Earther Technology should be in both Category:Equipment and Category:Earthers. It's a venn diagram of both.

9 & 10 & 11. Agreed

12. Maybe remove the subcategory that are in Category:Bandits from Category:Crime? Could stay the same since Category:Bandits is a subcategory of Category:Crime.

13 & 14. Agreed

15. Same as 8. It's a Venn Diagram. The Heartflame Set is both an Armor and an Artifact. Could be the same problem as 12, but perhaps some future non-enchanted armor will have their own page.

16 & 17. See 12.

18. Already rectified. Eye of Baleros doesn't have a subcategory, but it would be empty anyway, because we know nothing about them. I have a new suggestion instead. Rename that category to Category:Great Companies. Their number is not always Four in history so it's useful if TWI decide to talk about previous Great Companies like what is happening with Jungle Tails, a previous Great Company.

19. See my new suggestion 29.

20. See 10 since it's related.

21. Disagreed. Royalty and Nobility are both different things. Per the first two sentence on the Wikipedia page of Nobility: "Nobility is a social class found in many societies that have an aristocracy. It is normally ranked immediately below royalty."

22. Agreed

23. Liscor is an City-State. Liscor is an independent nation that is not ordered by any other people. The Walled Cities can suggest something, but Liscor is not forced to obey that suggestion as seen in the Election Arc where the Walled Cities backed Lism and in 7.23 LM where Liscor was threatening the Walled Cities. It's a city-state, because all the power is in the city despite the surrounding villages and farms that are included in Liscor's sphere of influence.

24. The other Hives got names: Armored Hive, Silent Hive, Flying Hive, etc, 7th Hive. They just don't have their own pages.

25. Category:Riverfarm should be a subcategory of Category:Unseen Empire. The land is the Unseen Empire is not just Riverfarm, but also the previous villages and cities that were around.

26. Agreed

27. Agreed, they are not needed.

28. I believe Category:Mounts should be a subcategory of Category:Vehicles. After all, a Mount is a living Vehicle and see 8

NEW 29. Unique Category that are Class with a Prefix and/or Suffix like those mentioned in 19 should not exist. It flood the category pages with useless data. Some characters would create a high numbers of categories by themselves. Bird would be part of Category:Bow-Singer Queen of the Free Antinium, Category:Bow-Queen of the Free Antinium, Category:Bow-Warden of the Songbird, Category:Queen of Freedom, Category:Antinium Queen, Category:Bird Hunter, Category:Amazing Liar. That's a total of 7. Category:Antinium Queens should stay since it's also a Subspecies + Title Category, but that's another question. For the Class Category, Bird, in my suggestion would only be part of Category:Hunter, Category:Tactician, Category:Singer, Category:Revelantor, Category:Liar Category:Warden, and Category:Queen. Other example of Class Category: Pisces should only be part of Category:Necromancer, Category:Mage, Category:Slave, and Category:Duelist.

Torenity
Torenity | Posted on Jan 20, 2024 at 11:45 pm | Last edited on Jan 21, 2024 at 12:07 am

I agree with SerBear on the Venn Diagram points. Categories are flexible and can allow for multiple category parents (within reason).

There's no reason to shy away from putting Heartflame Breastplate in both Category:Armor and Category:Artifacts, a reader would reasonably expect it to appear in both categories.

AxelTerizaki
Axel Terizaki | Posted on Jan 22, 2024 at 11:59 am

Okay, fine with me :)

4. Media can be in Content. My idea was to have Pirateaba in Media since they're the author of the main media.

For 29, I'm as well in favor of simplified class categories, but we'll need to get a good look at classes and decide which some of them depend on to establish some kind of tree. I like the idea a lot, but it'll need a lot of work. It's goint o be part of our classes overhaul. I wanted to do it automatically via Pallandor's data but it looks like we'll have to do it by hand. *sob* ;)

So for 19 I'll follow your suggestion from 29.

For the rest, I agree with your points :)

Ayutac
Affirmative
Ayutac | Posted on Jan 20, 2024 at 2:39 pm

Yes to 2, 5, 8, 9, 19, 20, 26

AxelTerizaki
Axel Terizaki | Posted on Jan 20, 2024 at 3:57 pm

Gotchaj, will fix those on monday.

Unless someone else wants to do it of course.

Ayutac
Issue 18/new issue
Ayutac | Posted on Jan 20, 2024 at 2:35 pm

Should be named "Great Companies" instead since there once were 5.

AxelTerizaki
Axel Terizaki | Posted on Jan 20, 2024 at 3:48 pm

I agree with that renaming, that kind of fixes the issue.

Ayutac
Issue 23
Ayutac | Posted on Jan 20, 2024 at 2:34 pm

It's not under the aegis of any walled city and has its own rules, making it a city-state effectively

AxelTerizaki
Axel Terizaki | Posted on Jan 20, 2024 at 3:47 pm

Yeah but in that case a lot of other cities are city-states, like Hectval or that city Relc went from during his exile frrom Liscor.

I understand your point but I'm not sure if it was ever considered a city-state in the story.

Ayutac
Ayutac | Posted on Jan 21, 2024 at 3:24 pm | Last edited on Jan 21, 2024 at 3:24 pm
   Yeah but in that case a lot of other cities are city-states

I dont see a problem with that

Torenity
Category:Appearances
Torenity | Posted on Jan 17, 2024 at 7:57 pm

Category:Appearances : Candidate for removal as it seems quite useless?
Issue 3


The Category should stay, or else we risk all of the Appearance pages being unCategorized. Its existence simply to group up all Appearances is useful. Every page should be categorized so that we can use the category tree to locate everything.

Instead, we can move Category:Appearances to be elsewhere, if it's not meant to be viewed by readers. I imagine the category is more useful to editors

AxelTerizaki
Axel Terizaki | Posted on Jan 17, 2024 at 7:59 pm

Gotcha. Then we can move it to Category:Browse (or create a subcategory from Browse called Editor Stuff or something like that and put this and Templates in there)

Torenity
Torenity | Posted on Jan 24, 2024 at 12:51 am

Ah, I'm taking a closer look at Category:Appearances (and the other Categories similiar to it). Since they're all subpages of Character pages...my new opinion on this is that the categories Appearances,Quotes, and Relationships should go under Category:Characters.

This'll make the ambiguity in Content a little more clear. I'm of the opinion Content is meant for things you find in the "World" of the Wandering Inn, going by all the Locations, Plants, Metals and other world building categories in there.

AxelTerizaki
Axel Terizaki | Posted on Jan 24, 2024 at 12:53 am

Doesn't change much I suppose :) We can move those categories to Characters.

Torenity
Torenity | Posted on Jan 24, 2024 at 12:54 am

sounds good, I'll do so right now o7

Torenity
Category Tree Root
Torenity | Posted on Jan 16, 2024 at 7:10 pm

Woah! So much activity and organization plots to shift through. I can't read all of it right now, but on the first point about the category tree root...I would argue Browse to be the top-most level of our tree. As it contains some meta stuff we want to keep an eye on, and Content(99% of our Categories) can remain under Browse. Seems odd, but Browse contains things that Content doesn't, and shouldn't.

Content ought to have our article pages that readers will see. (So I believe Media should move out of Content, and into Browse, for example.)

AxelTerizaki
Axel Terizaki | Posted on Jan 16, 2024 at 7:46 pm

Sounds fair! :)

We'll do it the other way around then, have Content be a subcategory of Browse and not the other way around.

collapse
permalink
permalink
collapse
permalink
permalink
permalink
permalink
permalink
collapse
permalink
permalink
permalink
collapse
permalink
permalink
collapse
permalink
permalink
collapse
permalink
permalink
permalink
collapse
permalink
permalink
collapse
permalink
permalink
collapse
permalink
collapse
permalink
permalink
permalink
permalink
collapse
permalink
collapse
permalink
collapse
permalink
permalink
collapse
permalink
collapse
permalink